Subject: Crosslisting of COP-2210 and COP-2250 From: Prabakar Date: 4/19/2020, 9:53 AM To: Erica Levy , Maria Charters , Rick Blazek , Trevor Cickovski , Tim Downey , Tiana Solis , "William B Feild, Jr." CC: Shu-Ching Chen , Mark Weiss , Joselyn Naranjo , navlakha@cs.fiu.edu Hi All, I understand that it would be ideal to teach both COP-2210 & COP-2250 with the same course content and projects.  This would be suitable particularly for remote teaching as well as  for on-line degree programs. Note the difference in catalog descriptions of these courses (see in the forwarded email below). I am copying to all UGC members, Mark, Jai and Joselyn. As we are in the final exam week, all of us are busy now. Please share your opinion when time permits. There are several concerns in unifying these two courses:    - ABET accreditation requirements    - Problem solving skills requirement for CS majors    - IT major graduation rate (minimize attrition)    - Preparation for the next level programming course (COP-3337 vs COP-3804)    - Credits discrepancy (students switch majors to save 1-credit additional payment)    - Allocating TAs for the 1cr Lab sessions    - No discrepancy for instructor teaching load (COP-2210 vs COP-2250)       since both have Lecture 3credits, and the 1cr Lab is supported by TA.      The purpose of the lab is to enhance the problem solving skills for students We had relaxed prereq for COP-2210 many times over several years:     - Discrete Math was a Prereq for COP-2210     - Discrete Math was a Coreq for COP-2210     - Current status::         COP-2210: Prereq MAC-1140 or MAC-1147 or MAC-2233 or MAC-2311         COP-2250: Prereq None Possible alternatives:    A) Introduce 1-credit lab for COP-2250:         Can SCIS support/fund TA support for all sections?         Merge all lab sections through a pool of common lab sections         Increase in credit requirement for non-CS majors    B) Remove the 1cr Lab for COP-2210         Will there be any deficiency in programming competency for COP-3337 students?            (COP-3337 instructors and advisors can provide this feedback)    C) Replace both COP-2210 & COP-2250 with a 3-credit Python course        that meets ABET CS program requirements         Need to redesign COP-3337 for CS majors and COP-3804 for non-CS majors Summary:    - There is no magic solution or a quick patch for resolving this issue.    - Changes to these two entry courses require a lot of deliberations among instructors who teach these courses, UGC review, and one or two faculty meetings.    - Following the faculty decision, the implementation of proposed changes can be submitted in curriculum proposals in Fall'20 to be effective from Fall'21.    - Meanwhile, COP-2210 needs to be taught more rigorously with increased programming complexity than COP-2250. Regards --Prabu On 4/15/2020 1:49 PM, Erica Levy wrote: > I am also looping in Prabu- thank you! > > Erica Levy, M.S.Ed., Ed.M. > > Assistant Director, Academic Support Services > > School of Computing and Information Sciences > > Florida International University > > 11200 SW 8th Street > > Miami, FL 33199 > > CASE 317 > > 305-348-7702 > > Email: elevy@cs.fiu.edu  > > From: Nico Rose > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 1:42 PM > To: Maria Charters ; Shu-Ching Chen > Cc: Erica Levy ; Rossana Quintana ; Karina Ocampo ; FIU Online Scheduling ; Mark Weiss > Subject: Re: Crosslisting >   > > Hi Team, > >   > > While the final decision remains with the College of Engineering, I am concerned about cross listing two courses that, in theory, should have different amount of contact time/workload as per SACS accreditation guidance. One section is three credits, one section is four. The official SACS policy can be found here regarding workload and credit hours: https://sacscoc.org/app/uploads/2019/08/Credit-Hours.pdf > > Additionally, the official university description for the two courses do not match: > > COP2210: A first course in computer science that uses a structured programming language to study programming and problem solving on the computer. Includes the design, construction and analysis of programs.  Student participation in a closed instructional lab is required.  This course will have additional fees. > COP 2250: A first course in programming for IT majors.  Syntax and semantics of Java.  Classes and Objects.  Object oriented program development.  Not acceptable for credit for Computer Science majors.  This course will have additional fees. > > If the courses are indeed “the same” – I would recommend rectifying this issue through curriculum committee and correcting the number of credits offered for one of the sections so in future terms this is not an problem. > > I have copied Dean Weiss on this note as I believe we are getting into a grey area with accreditation if a decision is made to crosslist these two different classes with non-matching credit hours and non-matching catalog descriptions. > >   > Best, > Nico  > > Nico Rose > Associate Director, Academic Unit Relations & Program Management > Instructor, Chaplin School of Hospitality and Tourism Management > Florida International University > nirose@fiu.edu | 305-348-3210 > /Users/nicorose/Library/Containers/com.microsoft.Outlook/Data/Library/Caches/Signatures/signature_1257419529 > > www.fiuonline.com | Facebook | Twitter | Linkedin >  > > From: Maria Charters > Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM > To: Shu-Ching Chen > Cc: Erica Levy , Rossana Quintana , FIU Online Scheduling > Subject: Fw: Crosslisting > > Hi Dr. Chen, > > I would like to appeal to you a decision made by Erica regarding the cross-listing of COP2210 and COP2250 online courses in Canvas this summer.  As you will see from our email threads, both COP2250 and COP2210 have identical course syllabi, as found in http://www4.cis.fiu.edu/courses/Syllabi/.  I am teaching both classes online this summer, and as I prepare the Canvas modules, with the help of our Instructional Designer, Rossana,  there is an enormous amount of work involved, including the identification of Zybook exercises, labs, and challenges. > > I have taught COP2210 and COP2250 as face-to-face courses in the summer before, and I have always taught them identically, as they have the exact same content for both classes.  For the purposes of Canvas and Zybooks, it is more efficient to combine them into 1 shell, because if there are changes made to the course along the way in the summer, being that I am using Zybooks for the first time, we would have to make duplicate changes in 2 Canvas shells, and risk getting one of them out of sync with the other.  The analogy to this is how we teach abstraction in programming, where we create 1 method or procedure that can be called from different places in a program, instead of duplicating code everywhere.   > > Please let us know if you approve of combining these 2 courses under 1 Canvas shell, for the purposes of the online course offerings of COP2250 and COP2210.  The students would still get credit for their individual course selections in my.fiu.edu. > > Thank you, > Cristy > Cristy Charters, Instructor > School of Computing and Information Sciences > Phone: 305-348-7981 | mcharter@fiu.edu | ECS 333 > > From: Maria Charters > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:31 PM > To: Erica Levy ; Rossana Quintana > Cc: FIU Online Scheduling > Subject: Re: Crosslisting > > Hi Erica, > > Our discussion previously was about COP3804 and COP3337.  But, as you can see from the official syllabi of COP2250 and COP2210, they are identical.  We can email Dr. Prabakar for him to reassure you that they are identical in nature.  It does not make sense to go through the logistics of duplicating the exact same course and then all the rest that goes with it, when they are identical.  Additionally, we are using the exact same Zybooks textbook for both. > > I am more than happy to make this case to Dr. Chen, as they are both the same material, coursework, etc, as justified by the official department syllabi. > > Thanks, > Cristy > Cristy Charters, Instructor > School of Computing and Information Sciences > Phone: 305-348-7981 | mcharter@fiu.edu | ECS 333 > > From: Erica Levy > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:00 PM > To: Maria Charters ; Rossana Quintana > Cc: FIU Online Scheduling > Subject: Re: Crosslisting > > Hi Professor Charters: > > We previously discussed this- we cannot do that...these classes must remain separate as they are two different courses. > > Thanks, > Erica > Erica Levy, M.S.Ed., Ed.M. > Assistant Director, Academic Support Services > School of Computing and Information Sciences > Florida International University > 11200 SW 8th Street > Miami, FL 33199 > CASE 317 > 305-348-7702 > Email: elevy@cs.fiu.edu  > > From: Maria Charters > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:58 AM > To: Erica Levy > Cc: Rossana Quintana ; FIU Online Scheduling > Subject: Re: Crosslisting > > Hello Everyone, > > I just looked up the official course syllabi from our department for both COP2210 and COP2250.  These are found in http://www4.cis.fiu.edu/courses/Syllabi/.  I have attached the syllabi for COP2210 and COP2250, so that you can see that they are identical. > > Therefore, in the interest of providing a consistent Canvas shell and ZyBooks set of assignments, I am officially requesting the cross listing of these 2 courses as 1 course in Canvas only.  The students will continue to receive credit for their individual course selections, but there is no difference in what and how these students are learning, especially in the online environment where everyone goes at their own pace within the confines of course schedules, etc. > > Since online also does not have a separate lab, this further makes both courses identical, even though COP2210 is 4 credit and COP2250 is 3 credits.  I believe the attached syllabi will justify this decision, and will certainly make the logistics of preparing and maintaining the Canvas coursework much more manageable and efficient.   > > Please let me know when these 2 courses are cross listed.  Thank you! > > Cristy > Cristy Charters, Instructor > School of Computing and Information Sciences > Phone: 305-348-7981 | mcharter@fiu.edu | ECS 333 > > From: Maria Charters > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 4:17 PM > To: Erica Levy > Cc: Rossana Quintana ; FIU Online Scheduling > Subject: Re: Crosslisting > > Hi Erica, > > COP2210 is the CS version of COP2250, which is the IT version.  Both classes have the same course objectives, etc.  It would be helpful to cross-list them, but I can also keep them separate if you prefer.  The advantage of cross-listing them is that when I make changes to the curriculum, assignments, etc., I only have to do them in 1 Canvas location, instead of having to duplicate the effort in the other one. > > Let me know.  Thanks. > Cristy > Cristy Charters, Instructor > School of Computing and Information Sciences > Phone: 305-348-7981 | mcharter@fiu.edu | ECS 333 > > From: Erica Levy > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 1:20 PM > To: Maria Charters > Cc: Rossana Quintana ; FIU Online Scheduling > Subject: Re: Crosslisting > > Hi Professor Charters: > > Why are we cross-listing these 2 sections when they are two separate courses? To my understanding, there should be different course material for each shell. Thanks. > >   > > Erica Levy, M.S.Ed., Ed.M. > > Assistant Director, Academic Support Services > > School of Computing and Information Sciences > > Florida International University > > 11200 SW 8th Street > > Miami, FL 33199 > > CASE 317 > 305-348-7702 > Email: elevy@cs.fiu.edu  > > From: FIU Online Scheduling > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2020 11:43 AM > To: Erica Levy > Cc: Rossana Quintana > Subject: Crosslisting > > Hi Erica, > > Hope all is well!  Can you please let us know if we should crosslist the courses COP2250 RVCC 1205 and COP2210 RVCC 1205 on canvas? As a reminder, crosslisting would only combine the course shells on Canvas. If you have any questions or concerns please let us know! > > Thank you! > > Program Management Team > Kristie Reyes | 305-348-5354 | kmareyes@fiu.edu > Sarah Figueira | 305-348-4293 | sfigueir@fiu.edu > Laura DeBiase| 305-348-8198 | ldebiase@fiu.edu > Nico Rose |305-348-3210 | nirose@fiu.edu > > /Users/nicorose/Library/Containers/com.microsoft.Outlook/Data/Library/Caches/Signatures/signature_1257419529 > www.fiuonline.com | Facebook | Twitter | Linkedin